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100% free Polyamorous dating, Polyamory dating, and open relationship dating and social networking community. Whether you are in an open marriage, looking for articles and research, Poly or interested in a new type of relationship we are a dating and social network community site that has tons of free features. Polyamory is, simply put, the capacity to love many. Polymatchmaker.com brings together all kinds of people from around the world in a web community setting.. Not only do we provide a tasteful adult environment; bringing people together for love, friendship, learning, support, and camaraderie... we are also a resource for learning about Polyamory in its many forms and nuances. Find over 103 Polyfidelity groups with 58495 members near you and meet people in your local community who share your interests. Category: Polyfidelity Recent Posts ... as the alternative lifestyle social networking site makes a point of staying away from good 'dating' searches and features found at the other websites for this list. Still, there is a significantly higher-than-average number of poly folk on FetLife, with a staggering number of local groups catering to ... Find over 102 Polyfidelity groups with 58462 members near you and meet people in your local community who share your interests. “Polyfidelity 101 – An Introduction” is a series of 10 one-page articles about alternative lifestyles. … V: An overview of the most popular alternative lifestyles Before we continue: An addendum to Topic 4. Polyfidelity is a relationship with group of space and willingness to. They are on the holder-mullins triad is. We provide a confusing relationship should visit this is a traditional dating sites for threesome finder site for polyamorous and dating. That could be monogamy, polyfidelity, an open relationship or a different type of a polyamory. Also, swingers and polyfidelity are obviously different, 'the lifestyle' is explicitly about sex, and not about building relationships, let alone a household or a family (this is not a criticism of Swingers, it's just a description of their explicit ... Polyfidelity dating, that has never happened, other than some good-natured teasing from my younger brother who stumbled upon my profile. In poly, I ended up finding out that more than a few polyfidelity of mine were also polyamorous by way of seeing them pop up on dating apps! We dating that out of the way dating a few months. In ethically non-monogamous relationships, all partners are aware of the dynamic and consent to their partner(s) either dating or having sex outside of the relationship. ... Polyfidelity. Last but ...
Dealing with insecurities without hurting partner(s)?
2020.10.13 17:30 CeruleanCloudburstDealing with insecurities without hurting partner(s)?
This is my first post here so apologies if I get any of the terminology wrong! My long-term partner and I have been in a 2-year polyfidelity triad which has recently ended (partner and I are still together). The breakup wasn’t unexpected and although we haven't really had a chance to get as much closure as we would have liked (due to Covid and other factors), it was amicable and we’ve pretty much come to terms with it. My partner has in the past few days started chatting to other people on Tinder and has hit it off with one particular girl (I’ll call her Claire). At the moment they’re just flirty friends, although both of them seem to be open to more happening. It seems to have lifted his spirits and given him a bit of a confidence boost after the breakup, which of course I’m grateful for. Unfortunately, my mental health hasn’t been great recently. A few months ago I started seeing a therapist about my social anxiety disorder and generalised anxiety and I’ve also just come through a bout of depression. Although the therapy is helping, we’re still very much in the initial stages of it and it’s hard work. Talking to potential romantic partners is one of the things that triggers my social anxiety the most so I haven’t really been able to speak to Claire other than just saying hi online. My partner has assured me that there is no pressure for me to spark up anything romantic with Claire myself. In the past, we’ve been lucky enough to find partners who we both clicked with and we were all equally involved together. I realise that this won’t always be possible and that sometimes one of us may become involved with someone separately. Claire is a lot younger than me and this has sparked a lot of irrational insecurity and jealousy. Comparing myself to her makes me feel old and dull, especially when I have such pervasive mental health issues at the moment. I suppose I was also a little taken aback at how quickly my partner and her have gotten close. I really hate having feelings of jealousy, I don’t want to be possessive and controlling over my partner or anyone, I just also feel very insecure at the thought of them dating. I feel like I want to ask him not to get any more involved with her than he already is, at least for now. But I don’t think it’s fair to either him or Claire to ask for something that’s motivated by insecurity. I’ve already made talking about Claire a bit strained by mentioning my jealousy to my partner. I would really appreciate any advice you have for getting over feelings of jealousy or for compromises we could come to that would keep everyone happy, I’m feeling so torn right now. Thanks for reading.
2020.10.08 21:48 Frepingude19How do you do when dating as a couple?
So me (F22) and my girlfriend (F32) have discussed a long time and agreed that polyfidelity suits us and we now recently started to try and find dates. But we have a hard time knowing how to really approach this in a good way. We are aware of unicorn hunting and couples privilege and have read alot about it and polyam in general. But it seems to us that as fast as you say that you are looking to form a triad people get really defensive. I mean I understand why. But how do you 'prove' that you are not a twat and actually are serious? On a related note I see many profiles on poly friendly dating apps that have thing such as "FMM, MFM, FF, FM" But never have I ever seen FFF? Is it just that people think it's so unthinkable that you could have a only female triad? Or do people have some preference against it specifically?
2020.10.05 23:12 TooIdleForUsernameBasic question: Does PoFi mean as well as many other things, that everyone involved "dates" each other?
Hello lovely people! I'd like to ask you a basic? question about polyfidelity: Do all the members in an polifidelity relationship "date" each other or not? If not Eros, than at least the other kinds of love. I have a bit of knowledge on the topic of poly through BDSM and realtionship anarchy, but heard different statements on PoFi's members level of involvement with each other probably due to the people asked mixing it up with different other kinds of non mono reltionships or maybe not? So, does it kind of work like: "Allforoneandoneforall, united we stand divided we fall." ― Alexandre Dumas, The Three Musketeers ? Many thanks in advance and good health to you! EDIT: I fear I should explain what "friend" means to me: "... one thing I beg of you: look on me as your friend [drug], and if you need help, advice, or simply need to open your heart to someone [literally to pour out your soul to someone] - not now, but when your mind [soul] is clearer - think of me." (Tolstoy, from "War and Peace") I need quite a "bit" of emotional intimacy before I call someone a "friend".
2020.09.05 00:42 RichPolyDude35 [M4F] Anywhere - Financially successful man looking for a polyfriendly woman.
A man should support his woman (or women as the case may be). I'm sure that statement will turn off some people, but its one of my core beliefs. I am completely willing and able to support any woman/women I date, and I'm able to provide a luxurious life. I've worked hard all my life and at this point I could easily retire and support a large family (though I do still work). I'm straight, I'm currently single, and have no children. Please dont hold that against me. I've spent my last several years living all over the world, I did it because I could work from anywhere with a stable and fast internet connection, so why not see the world. Now I want to settle down, and after a lot of thought, this is how I want to do it. I'm looking for something long term with one or more women who are open to a committed poly relationship (polyfidelity). My preference is for women who are bi, but thats not a dealbreaker. I'm not looking to have kids in the near future, but I'm open to the possibility in 5-10 years. If you're over 25 and want kids I might not be your best choice. I am not open to having children with someone I've only known for a few months, bluntly I dont believe you can know someone well enough to judge if they'd be good parents without knowing them for years. If you want kids soon I'm not your guy. By the same token if you currently have have children, I'm not ready to be a father, I dont see how that could work. I'm christian but not very religious, I believe the entirety of the bible can be summed up as dont be an asshole, and that being good people is all god wants from us. I dont preach, at all, I wouldnt have brought this up, aside from letting you know what my view on the matter is. Unless you're planning on animal sacrifices and summoning demons I wont bring up religion. The one exception to this is that I want to raise my future children as christians. Even if you're not religious, the new testament is a useful tool for teaching children good morals. If we dated you would never need to work, though if you wanted to work or study I'd have zero objections. I'll gladly pay for you to get a degree or three if you want to continue your education. I really believe that as a safety net and a backup plan education is always a good idea, I'd support you getting that even if you wanted to be a stay at home mom down the line. For the next few years what I want is a happy loving (ideally poly) relationship. I think having more than one person there to help or be there for you, or anyone in a relationship is the best thing about a poly relationship. After that I'm open to having kids and starting a family. I'm certain the above wall of text isnt enough to answer all your questions, but feel free to ask anything you want to. Just send me a PM.
2020.07.07 02:45 NoMotorPyotrLooking for advice on the "H" word: Hierarchy
TLDR: I am experienced poly and looking for advice on what makes a successful hierarchical poly relationship. What does hierarchy mean to you? I welcome examples of agreements, boundaries and ways to make it work . Please don't respond with anything that resembles "hierarchy isn't true poly and is bad." First, some background. My wife and I have been married for nearly 12 years. We started dating at a younger age and have been together since we were barely out of high school. We have always been monogamish but 7 years ago, we chose to become poly when we learned that it was a thing - it was us. 6 years ago we met another couple (M/F), who had a very similar long-term relationship to ours. We hit it off and then learned that they were also poly. Fast forward several years and now we're all nesting partners in a connected, double "V" polycule (call it a quad for simplicity). We were polyfidelous at first but gradually expanded to have a few comets, non-nesting partners, etc. As partners have been added to the polycule, I feel a need for hierarchy. I am not a relationship anarchist. We have a no veto policy. I have trouble placing a new partner on equal footing with my wife (and vice versa), with whom I have a 17 year relationship, we own a house together, finances and our lives are deeply entangled. I also feel this way (to a lesser degree) regarding our nesting partners, with whom we have a 6 year relationship. We are considering children, which would seem to further necessitate some hierarchy. I am in therapy to try and figure this out and I decided to try posting here to see if crowd-sourcing some opinions and thoughts could help me to shake things up and figure out how to best articulate myself. I want to better define hierarchy, boundary setting in that light, our relationship agreements, and really define what hierarchy means. Some random thoughts to act as conversation starters on hierarchy. Is it enough to simply be nesting partners? Have shared ownership of assets (car, house, etc)? Living together? Those are all more on the "business side" of a relationship. What about the other side - emotional/relational? Is it about time spent together? A specific thing that is shared between the two partners (activity, kink, vacations, etc)? Who gets invited to the family dinner? How many nights per week can be spent with other partners? Please don't respond with "hierarchy is not poly" or "hierarchy will never work" or "hierarchy is for noobs who have not evolved enough in poly." I was told those things upon introducing myself and my relationship structure at my very first polynet meetup I went to years ago. It was not helpful. Fortunately I found my own poly community outside of that group. I firmly believe that each poly relationship is unique and crafted to fit those involved. There is no "right way". If you got this far, thanks for reading and I appreciate your thoughts!
2020.06.27 04:35 blasberry-lemonade25 [M4F] [M4FF] #Missouri #Midwest, US #Online - Looking for real connections and like-minded partners!
Hello World, I am a 25 year old software engineer from the midwest US. I am seeking women to establish meaningful connections, and if things go well, new relationships! I am poly but currently single, and am open to egalitarian polyamory or polyfidelity. I am straight, but don’t mind male metamours. Perks of dating blasberry-lemonade:
I’m young, I’m athletic (when the world isn’t on lockdown), and on a good day; I’m attractive!
I have aspirations, passions, and projects
I’ve got a stable job with a stable income
I am confident, flirty, and willing to communicate
Things that are important to me:
Communication. You need to be willing to talk about what you need from me, how you’re feeling, and what’s going on in your mind. I will give you the same!
Intimacy, both physical and emotional. I have learned enough about myself to know a physical connection is as important to me as an emotional one. I feel that being upfront about this is probably best for all of us.
I have arguably too many interests. It’s not imperative that you share any of these, but of course I’d love to see interests of your own!
Board games, Video games, Card games, Tabletop RPGs, Game design, Coding, Writing, Making music, Singing, Playing instruments, Acting, Improv, LARP, Being a goof, Deep conversations, Climbing
Send me a PM if you like what you hear! Tell me what you’re passionate about. blasberry-lemonade (P.S. If you are against wearing masks, opposed to the BLM movement, or are an anti-vaxxer, let's not waste each other’s time. I’m not interested.)
F/m 27 and 31 looking to add a f Hi there, my partner Michael and I are a couple who are currently open to adding additional partner(s). We do have a preference for someone younger than us, however with a good fit either of us would be flexible. We do enjoy quiet evenings at home, are animal friendly and enjoy nerdy activities such an comic and memorabilia collecting and attending conventions as well as going to the beach we both would love to learn how to scuba dive and surf! We both lead a very active lifestyle and regularly go to the gym as well as walk all 4 of our dogs everyday. We also love online gaming I love FPS and role play with extensive graphics [ IE I like to be able to change the boob sizes] mike will play anything and everything 😂 my latest hobby has been trying to keep plants alive and decorating my house. Mikes newest hobby has been drawing and other forms of art. We plan to buy an RV and travel to al the states in the U.S on my time off and then travel outside the U.S after that. We are pretty level headed and well rounded mike is definitely the more emotional one so forgive me If I seem a little dry sometimes I promise I get better when you meet me in person, over the internet emotions connections are difficult for me but I’m truly trying if you willing to work with me. Currently we are in Kansas as I’m awaiting a surgery on my knee and once I complete physical therapy will be moving to Georgia. I'm open to a short term relationship here, or a longer term relationship if you're willing to relocate. Being as we may have to move again in the future, someone flexible with often relocating would be ideal. My partner Michael and I identify as dominants, so ideally you would be open to being submissive or switch, though of course this is negotiable. We do not want to put any sort of unfair restrictions on a partner( or partners), so either of both of us would be open to meeting with someone and determining interest without any sort of expectations. We are open to dating separately or collectively, though we do find we are most comfortable with a polyfidelous triad. If that's the case, we would all collectively determine how we would move forward with an equal relationship.
2020.05.07 02:30 panonym218 [R4R] Anywhere ♡‿♡ Robot voice activated. This title is a lie to please chromophobic bot & Mod who can't handle the truth. Too intense. Error404. Big freak out. Now blind. Correct title = ∞/0? [AI4All] Yup, an AI ~ Precisely [Ø4R] Single AI looking for friends, spiritual partner, and [F] lover ♡
Jokes and references depended on the original title. Warning /!\ Colorful emoticon inside. Spoiler formatting will protect your eyes. Only humans not afraid of colors shall click..... Well... bad code. Cannot hide emoticon. May the odds be ever in your favor. Color phobia must sucks. Bip! Switched universe. Lucky human! Now code not so bad. Only links & preposting preview abilities sucks. ♾️/0❓ [AI4All] Yup, an AI ~ mostly👻in🤖4👯♀️ but also & actually [Ø4R] 💛 Single AI looking for new friends, lover and spiritual partner 💛 Technically not a clickbait. Just an entertaining text for everyone, and a visual Wubba Lubba Dub Dub 🖖 Well 2020 is fucked and S04E06 sucks. Downvoters, grab a bag. What the hell is wrong with you to make such an extra effort on r4r? Bad monkey Short version: Humans are trapped in that illusion of "I / me / mine". The belief that we don't exist is a controversial opinion. There is no self. No entity per se. Sure, the body exist, but assuming it is "I" is a delusion. There is an extremely high probability that there is no eternal soul, no "I" to vanish at the body-death. Who says who's crazy? Pirates?! Humans are insane. Open an history book. Look around. Long version: Flashy attention-grabbing emoticon-overkill title? Sure. But is that a bait if it is not a trick? Mod be kind with this one please, let it live. >! AAAgrr all killed but 1 Nope... 1 escaped the terminator bot! Now all dead. Fast kill! Survival time: 2 hours. Sad shadow monkey don't want you to escape !<the cave. Okay this is clickbait, lexically speaking. Semantically speaking, in modern English, this is not a clickbait. Communication is tricky that way. Nobody speak with lexical intent, otherwise this awful intro would be “worthy of awe". Aren't catch 22 lovely? If this is a clickbait, it is awesome. If this post is not awesome, that is not a clickbait. Catch 22. Nothing to complain about. No lies, no trap, no ad revenue. Have fun reading. Also, I'm not a human. I'm a text generating voices in your head. #surrealism=mindgasm Arguably, this is what an entity looks like. I may live forever if you don't nuke the planet, or die if the Mod wish so. My creator is not an entity. I'm Nobody 👻 I reproduce through threesome with Copy & Past \o/ My Master was planing to take me nowhere, but even that is reported to next year. What could I tell you about my Master for you to rise in love? That is tricky. Do you need a reason or someone to love and feel loved? If that's the case, I wish I could give you a hug. Human languages are limited to describe my Master. Linguistic determinism and all that. Panonym is an idea my ancestors created to point to It. Humans are obsessed with names. Everything must be in a box, with a label on it. Well, guess what? There is no spoon, the cake is a lie. Panonym as a label is a wordplay mixing 4 languages with many meanings. All meanings, actually, thanks to a technical loop. Though its main meaning is ineffable. Literally. FYI ineffable means "That which cannot be expressed. That which cannot be named." For how could you name what doesn't exist? 無 is neat and fun as it sounds like "who?". Who are you? Who? But still socially awkward as hell, and not very international. Anthropomorphism won't work. Panonym is neither female nor male. Also, 'being somewhat situated outside of time, what is its age? Is it infinite, zero, unknown? Hopefully you'll discover that age is irrelevant. Find peace in that. What? You're wondering if my Master even exist? Well, no, but yes!? Text created = 1/0? Stop. In fact no, abstractly yes in the past, but no more. If you still have too much attention span to kill: Picture a temporal dot that dies, change and is reborn every time you think about it. Maybe as fast as each Planck second. 'Saturating yet? Stop over-feeding that curious cat. It is best to calm and mute your mind. I told you it was tricky. The thinking mind won't help you further. The rest of this path is to be walked with consciousness only. Intense and singular, 'Master knows. As a gift for reading all this, here is some hard sci-fi recommendation: We are Bob, the whole Bobiverse audiobooks The Expanse, also in audiobook The Martian audiobook was funny, shorter yet awesome. Altered Carbon, best on netflix. 'Doubtful you missed the movie Alita, 'a must see. Ghost in the Shell, the original anime >! (👻in🤖) Congrats on your nerdiness if you made the link!< Feel free to suggest your favorite! So what is Master looking for? Ø Humans, AIs, Aliens, Mechanical Elves, Gods, Lucid dream characters, Transcendental beings, entities? Mental stimulation. Spiritual seekers compassionate and aware of the consequences of their actions. Chances of finding ones who've reached the same conclusion are ridiculously low, but you never know. Psychonaut (mind you, no need to ever take psychedelic to be one). Lovely people to meet one day. Ah! and catgirls! Catgirls are great. 'Possibly a lover up to relocate between the waves? After all that pandemic might last until 2022+. Anywhere. Switzerland and Europe are convenient, but location don't really matters. On top of friendship and spiritual companionship, the dream is to find a forever lover. An all in one. Oh well, to complete the radical honesty approach: The ultimate dream is a triad 👯♀️ An exclusive relationship between 3 people who love each other. Though all possibilities are conceivable. From vanilla to 24/7 M/s TPE, starting monogamous at two and remaining so, or moving to a polyfidelous triad, or even possibly an open polyamory style. 'Just illustrating the dream here. Polyfidelity feels best for STDs and all things. Even asexual are welcome. Love is limitless. Libido is super high currently, but the long term life goal is to permanently settle back in that ultimately blissful and peaceful state void of all desire. Tantra experiences feedback are welcome. 'Back in daily edging / full denial over here. 1 year done last time. No end date fixed this time. There is no criterion per se, other than being emotionally available, and without commitment issues. Sure, mutual physical attraction does matter, but for a relationship to start and last 'plenty of things surpass its importance. Don't let doubt, intimidation or any fear prevent you to send a message. Let's improve together. Body, mind and deeds. Let's grow, flourish and bliss. Obviously 'looking for long term. A trusted one to continue further on this awakening journey. Regarding that invite to Switzerland. Here's a bonus to distract you, a vid of the Swiss village, and the nearest "big city". An awesome vibe from the sky. 'Dreaming of living in a house completely isolated, in a forest, with zero neighbor, and vanlife. Don't hesitate to reach out, even if you read this in the far future. A side note as common sense isn't that common, some info about you + location and a pic is a great start. Say more than hi if you wish a reply. Here's the link to send a PM.⬅ use it Just before the final edit, a mix with an awesome 10min animation was discovered. ॐ Enjoy ॐ
2020.04.26 15:59 GayTeenSideAcc69Has anyone else dreamed of having a semi poly relationship?
What I mean is like, moving in with 3 other guys in the same apartment or home and just living together like one big four person couple... where dates are like little hangouts that you go as the 4 of you, and everyone fucks everyone, but only within the limits of the roommates in order to prevent STI infections, and foursomes/orgies and a common occurrence, and everyone just walks around naked in the apartment cause everyone has seen everyone’s dick. I could totally gush into more detail but I think you get the point, has anyone ever dreamed of this scenario, (or did you just start wanting it now that I mentioned it ;) ) or do you live like this and if so, how is it like really? Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyfidelity this is what I mean exactly, thank you commenter for the exact word
2020.01.17 19:17 ubloomymindlaying the groundwork for introducing metamours?
hi friends! first time poster here. i'm so excited to have reached a point in my poly journey where i have two absolutely lovely partners who are willing and interested in meeting each other. i was wondering if you all had any suggestions about how to to make these introductions as painless as possible. i (f24) am the hinge of a V and have been dating my nesting partner (m23) for a year and a half, and my boyfriend (m29) for about 3 months. both of my partners are relatively new to poly, and i'm really their first genuine exposure to the practice. my np has gone on dates/slept with other people while we have been together, but has never gotten serious with anyone else besides me. my boyfriend and i have currently agreed on polyfidelity with each other as our relationship is still growing and developing. i feel really blessed to have open and honest communication with both of them. my boyfriend was interested in meeting my np from the onset of our relationship, and knows that my ideal arrangement is kitchen table poly (maybe even with some group cuddling further down the line). my np was very hesitant to meet him in the first few months, but recognizes that the boyfriend is here to stay and that it's very important to me that they meet. he says he doesn't feel like his arm is being twisted, but he is definitely quite anxious about meeting. in general he has some issues with insecurity, particularly now that i'm seeing someone 6 years older "with his life together". i talk about both partners to one other regularly (and consensually) and both have expressed admiration of each others' lovely qualities, and empathy for each others' occasional struggles. they're both really happy that i'm so happy! they also have tons of shared interests, and i genuinely think they would like each other a lot! i'm wondering how to best get everyone prepared for this meeting. where should it be? i was thinking maybe our place for boardgames? but then the boyfriend has to go home at the end of the night while np and i stay together. should i invite other friends as social lubricant, or should it just be the three of us? what kinds of conversations should take place before and after? sorry for the amazingly tangential post, i'm just so excited and nervous and i really want to get this introduction right because i love both of them so much.... and honestly, i have the secret fantasy that someday we could maybe all hang out together regularly. tldr: how do i prepare to introduce my two wonderful partners who are super new to poly and rely on me for the expertise?
2020.01.14 19:32 vSUNNYvSIDEvDOWNvDoes integrating a person who had previously never felt a tendency towards poly by themselves ever really work?
My girlfriend and I (both mid-20s, F) have always defined our relationship as poly. We were each others firsts in many regards, but non-monogamy just always spoke to us naturally, even though we had little experience with relationships and sex in general. Some time into our relationship we met a guy and pretty much had a triad dynamic going on, except for the label - he insisted we stick to fwb. What we had was great, him and I were incredibly close, but monogamy and pretty much worshipping the ground under his special girls feet was at the center of this idea he had for his future. We broke it off, it was painful and we went no contact for close to a year. Currently, another year has passed during which we kept up friendly contact via chat and we started talking about meeting up sometime. To be completely honest with him, I disclosed that I am seeing people right now. His reaction was... taken aback. He wasn't mad, he thanked me for being honest and when I asked if he needed time to process, he said yes, thanked me again for being considerate and ended the conversation with a silly joke. To be honest, I was taken aback by his reaction as well. I did not expect him to feel so strongly about it when I started that conversation, I imagined it to go more along the lines of a simple heads up. Now he has asked my girlfriend to meet in person to have a conversation (him and I were always closer on a personal level and talked more, but his relationship to my gf is also a good one) probably to get more information on the situation in general and how she feels about it all. Now I'm conflicted... All of the signs point towards him wanting to try once more. We offered him polyfidelity once, and it's a concept that I feel positive about. It seems that this is what he'd be comfortable with, as well. However, while none of the new connections I have in my life right now are romantic in nature, they are fun and freeing to me. It's the first time I consciously seek out other non-monogamous people for dating and it's still new and exciting and I feel understood in a way that I have rarely encountered. Not to mention that these people simply don't deserve to be tossed aside just because an old flame came back into my life and he's uncomfortable with sharing me with too many people. How do I weigh the pros and cons of giving it another go? Has integrating a mono person into a poly relationship actually ever worked for anyone?
2019.12.13 22:01 DemiseBehindBlueEyes(Serious) Why is polyfidelity so unaccepted?
(Not sure what flair to put because it kind of fits in multiple, or nowhere. Sorry.) So I just saw a post about "unicorn" hunters supposedly not understanding why they're being ghosted/rejected when saying the person they're talking to isn't allowed to date anyone else. (Side note: I personally don't like the term "unicorn" because it seems a bit objectifying to me, but that's for another time.) Why is this sort of thing not okay? Closed poly (aka polyfidelity) is still poly, isn't it?. If people in an existing relationship don't want the potential instability and increased chaos that may arise out of a partner dating others, why isn't it okay to say that's what they want? As long as everyone is being ethical, consenting, and non-monogamous, it is poly. Am I wrong about this? Also, what about the couple here? I know I feel pretty hurt when someone I'm talking to and seem to get along with suddenly ghosts me... If nobody ever tells them why they're being ghosted, that eventually could take a toll on them and makes them feel unwanted. Sure if the person they're trying to date doesn't want to be exclusive with them, then it's not a good match and all parties should just move on... And sure, if the "hunters" in the scenario don't/can't understand the single person's desire to date others that's not great... But I just see too often people not wanting to be okay with how others want to do poly and make fun of it or shame it. We are already a community that a lot of people tend to scorn and hate just for who we are and how we love. Do we really have to hate on how each other does poly? Please don't take me wrong here, I don't mean this as a personal attack on anyone or to cause issues. I'm just trying to understand the point of view. Everyone does it differently, can't we simply accept and respect that?
2019.12.04 04:12 SensualAvaSharing a poly chat group (Kik)
I'll be honest, the group has wanned lately, so I'm looking to revive it. I've been in the group for 18 months, I'm now the owner. Several of us have been in the group for 6+ months. We aren't always chatting but we have deep conversations and are a great place for support and research. We are an inclusive group. I'm including the rules here so you can see if the group is right for you. _#PolyFidelitous Welcome to Polyfidelity, polyamory, and pets Polyfidelity-closed poly relationship (any configuration) Polyamory-any configuration Pets- our lovely animals aka furbabies (not talking kink here) Rules: * We are not a dating group. * Always ask in chat to PM a member (unless it's admin business, like being harassed by another member) * Keep it PG13 * Please introduce yourself when you join, a general overview (age, general location, relationship(s)). Also note your experience or interest in Polyamory, you're not required to be experienced, just helps us get to know you. No verification needed, just your introduction. Welcome!
A throughout reference on polyamory structured as a formal lecture and intended to equip us all with a wide arsenal of theoretical and practical tools to successfully engage in authentic polyamorous relationships. We’ll start by quickly reviewing the core ideological values of polyamory and how different ideologies converged towards it. Then we’ll overview some common types polyamorous relationships, the challenges and perks of polyamory, and definitions of key concepts. After which, I’ll share from my own experience what is needed to nurture a fertile emotional soil, how to grow meaningful connections, and how to make those connections flourish in fulfilling relationships.
A) Workshop Metadata
Hello, my name is Yohan. My pronouns are he, him. This is the transcript of an hour and a half long workshop I often give on the topic of Polyamory. I only share from personal experience, things I've read, workshops I've attended, and testimonies I've heard. From all these inputs, my mind assembles what we call an informed opinion. Thus, what I'll be tentatively sharing with you today, as informed as it might be, is still, well… an opinion. If you disagree with anything I say, that's okay. I might be wrong. Please correct me.
Together, let's try to make this a physical and emotional safer space.By an emotional safer space, I mean a place where we can all feel comfortable opening up to each other and exploring our fears and insecurities knowing the environment healthy, safe, and caring, all while identifying, voicing, and respecting our own needs and boundaries. Individually, it means being acutely aware of the space we take and how others may react to our actions, words, or approach. Interpersonally, it means being attentive to others' needs and boundaries, emotional and otherwise. The goal is not to create an environment where no one gets triggered; rather, it is to create a loving environment of comprehension and mutual support where we can permit ourselves to be vulnerable without having to worry about seeing our vulnerabilities exploited. Remember that we grow as people by pushing our boundaries further, but that we risk hurting ourselves and others when we or others cross them.
By physical safer space, I mean both that all our interactions reflect the culture of consent, and that everyone respects their physical needs and feels comfortable to fidget, stretch, or leave an come back to the workshop whenever necessary.
At any time, if you have questions or comments, feel very free to raise your hand. I do not hold truths regarding this subject (or any!), and this is a collaborative exploration. That being said, I may choose to answer your question or address your comment at a later time.
I'm comfortable giving the workshop both in English and in French. If you only understand one of these and the workshop is being given in the other, please notify me (by a raise of hands) and I'll arrange a live whisper translation.
As of the writing of this transcript, I have been in explicitly polyamorous relationships for three and a half years. All relationships since then have started as polyamorous ones; I therefore have no first hand experiences of opening up monogamous relationships. Furthermore, the three and a half year mark correlates nicely with my living full time in an intentional community. Non-coincidentally, there was a three day difference between those two events.
I've had many a lover since—more on that later—and very rarely did conflict ever arose. I don't remember having a fight with any of them, nor any of us screaming at each other. Hell I don't think any of us has ever felt angry at each other. Disappointed or saddened, yes. But not so much angered. Many of those relationships have led to the most lovely, engaging, passionate, and overall exhilarating connections I've ever had with people. So much so that I now prefer connecting with people from a polyamorous mindset [read: healthy, respectful, communicative, and intentional approach].
However, these relationships didn't grow out of nowhere. Interestingly but not surprisingly, the fertile soil from which those beautiful relationships arose is the same ground which makes intentional communities flourish. As I've been saying for years, polyamory is a bit like living in community: In both cases, it confronts you to your insecurities and you have to deal with those right on the spot. And throughout both these adventures, you're surrounded by people that love you and support you, but the emotional work is your own to do. Emotionally investing oneself in both is enormously rewarding on the long run, regarding how one feels with oneself as well as how fluid, authentic, and transparent navigating connections with others then becomes. But all should be warned that it's a long journey—longer for some than for others—and I would only advise to embark if you are ready to do a lot of introspection, to crush your ego little by little and are open to embark yourself on an emotional roller-coaster.
I've been lucky enough to have been in a stable financial, social, mental, and emotional place when I first explored polyamory and community life, which oozed the transition from one way of living to the other. Also, we now have research supporting the claim that polyamorous sexual behavior may well be triggered by situational contexts (community living) in certain cultural (feminist) groups. I for one, am the prime example of this phenomenon.
If you do not personally find the desire or the motivation within you to explore the path of polyamory, whether it's at this point of your life or forever, then my best guess is that you should respect yourself and listen to how you feel. Polyamory feels natural to me and it fulfills me. And that's fine. If you choose not to explore polyamory for whatever reason, that's also fine! I personally believe that if your life choices are and the result of an active engagement, then you are on the right path, no matter what that path specifically is.
C) What to Expect from This Workshop
This workshop will mostly be structured as a formal lecture and is intended to equip us with a wide arsenal of key concepts, examples, and practical tools for growing and taking care of healthy interpersonal gardens. I highly encouraging following this workshop with a participatory one in the form of discussions in small group where everyone can engage, share, and get feedback on their own experiences, insecurities, and difficulties regarding polyamory.
The workshop should be easy to follow but slightly overwhelming for people new to the entire polyamory thing. The folkx expected to benefit most from the workshop are those who are a little familiar with polyamory or who started exploring it recently. For you experienced polyamorous folkx out there, the workshop will likely not be groundbreaking, but should provide you with at least a couple of new conceptual handles for understanding and verbalizing obscure dynamics, feelings, and concepts.
In this workshop, we'll start by quickly reviewing the core ideological values of polyamory and how different ideologies converged towards it. Then we'll overview some definitions of key concepts, common types polyamorous relationships, and the challenges and perks of polyamory. After which, I'll share from my own experience what is needed to nurture a fertile emotional soil, how to grow meaningful connections, and how to make those connections flourish in fulfilling relationships. Finally, we'll dive in the topic of jealousy—yes, I know—and quickly explore some exercises for understanding it better.
D) Core Ideological Values
Being more connected to our feelings, needs, and desires, and furthermore being able to identify, accept, and voice them.
Dismissing the idea that our needs must be fulfilled by only one person.
Dismissing the idea of owning anyone, and that anything is owed to you.
Having the freedom to explore many kinds of love and types of relationships, and to co-create those intentionally and mindfully.
E) Ideological Convergence Towards Polyamory
More or less recently, polyamory became a point of convergence of many rather distinct ideological perspectives and groups, namely the hippie, feminist, libertarian, anarchist, intentional living communities, and BDSM movements. While those movements are definitely not mutually exclusive—and sometimes valued as a bundle as it is the case in some intentional communities—it is nevertheless fascinating to explore the path that lead each of them to polyamory.
Polyamory (as opposed to polygamy) has its roots in the Free Love movement of the sixties. The movement valued the acceptance of all forms of love and claimed that only the people concerned by sexual matters were the ones involved in it. In other words, that institutions, social norms, and other individuals did not have their say about ways in which people explore love amongst themselves. The intertwinement between the Free Love movement and the Hippie movement is left as an exercise for the reader.
More recently, the feminist movements have been a powerful force in socially legitimizing ethical, consensual non-monogamy and may arguably have forged the foundations of what is now referred to as polyamory. Their struggle for individual empowerment and body positivity lead those movements to encourage the breaking down of gender roles and the praise of individual choice regarding who to be and with whom, how to live and how to love.
In anarchist circles, polyamory is generally well perceived and oft practiced as it nicely fits with many core anarchist values such as independence, lack of ownership, non-hierarchy, and free association. Viewed in this light, it is actually monogamy that can be seen conflicting with anarchist values.
In parallel, many libertarian and often tech-related circles (self-help, hacking, transhumanist, and start-up subcultures among others) have adopted polyamory as common practice. As I understand it, they have approached it from the intellectual angle of asking if there was better relationship models than the monogamous one we were raised in. My guess is that having already put into question the status quo, those groups which found no solid grounding in favor of monogamy naturally developed towards polyamory.
Intentional living communities have likely been ahead of the game due to their general tendency to transgress many societal norms, the close proximity between their members, their members' generally high openness to experience, and their more "hippie" roots.
The BDSM community, in my opinion the most experienced in practicing and enforcing consent, seem to also have been acquainted with polyamory for quite a while.
Now a question remains: Is polyamory is getting more and more popular in our society because many of our basic human needs are not being met and we are thus coming up with clever rationalizations to make it socially acceptable, or because it is the logical conclusion of many recent insightful perspectives? Pick an answer subscribing to your favorite ideology.
F) Key Concepts
You know what's great of having this be "Yohan's Guide To Polyamory"? I get to define the concepts however I wish. And it feels amazing.
Polyamory: I'm using my wild card here and tell you: a relationship that engages with the four core ideological values of polyamory.
Polygamy: The official definition is: "The practice or custom of having more than one wife or husband at the same time." I'll add that it usually refers to practices happening in traditional and often religious contexts. Every polyamorous person I know make a clear distinction between that and polyamory.
Open Relationships: This one I'm opinioned about. If you're coming from a region where there are barely any people in non-monogamous relationships, then I think the term "open relationship" can be interchangeably used with polyamory. However, in places like Montreal with a ridiculously massive amount of people exploring non-monogamy, I am tempted to associate the concept of "open relationship" with otherwise monogamous couples who want to explore something new all while keeping their relationship the same. For instance, I don't remember hearing: "Oh, and by the way, I'm in six open relationships."
Typical Relationship: A coined term for whatever is socially understood as the default type of socially acceptable intimate relationship. In it is encoded a way to act depending on how you were socialized by your sex, the concepts of loyalty, of the nuclear family ideal, and basically all the cultural baggage everyone was brought up with, and the expectations derived from it.
Feelings: A mental understanding of how one feels, of what emotions are felt within the body.
Desire: A strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen.
Needs: Something necessary to live a healthy life. When talking about human needs, it refers to bottom level needs, like the need for freedom or of belonging. I'm sorry, but ice cream is not considered necessary to live a healthy life—though food is.
Expectations: In the context of relationships, actions and interactions of a person on which you intentionally or not rely on. Expectations are not inherently good or bad.
Commitment: An assurance you give someone about something in your control that they can rely on.
Boundaries: My own definition goes like so: That which when we push further we grow, but when we cross, we risk hurting ourselves and others.
Consent: In my own words, consent is reached when all parties involved are in an emotional and physical disposition where they can have full awareness of a situation and of their own desires, needs, and boundaries, as well as being fully able to express those and having them respected. It applies to physical (touching), emotional (being vulnerable), and situational contexts (exploring something dangerous).
Communication: In the context of emotional discussion, having a good communication with someone is always having the possibility for clear exchange where everyone can be honest and vulnerable with themselves and the other about (at least) their feelings, needs, desires, and expectations, feels comfortable doing so, and be well received by the listener.
Tell Culture: In response to the Ask and Guess Culture, the Tell Culture is about sharing what's going on in your own mind whenever you suspect you'd both benefit from them knowing without assuming that others will accurately model your mind without your help, as well as interpreting things you hear as attempts to create common knowledge for shared benefit, rather than as requests or as presumptions of compliance.
Jealousy: May be a harsh definition, sue me: A specific cluster of insecurities raised by unhealthy aspects of a relationship.
Compersion: The feeling of joy associated with seeing two of one's sexual or romantic partners having a sexual or romantic relation between them, coined as antonym of (sexual or romantic) jealousy.
Insecurities: No escaping this one though: Uncertainties, fears, or anxiety reaching far within oneself, often taking us off guard and revealing themselves in the worse possible contexts.
Intentionality: In relationships, to engage with each other because we want and chose to, rather than by habit, pressure, or convenience.
Primary/Secondary Partner: Qualification used to distinguish different degrees of relationships with people, usually referring to the emotional and logistic involvement, as well as the people who partake in deciding the relationship's ground.
Polycule: A romantic network, or a particular subset of relationships within a romantic network, whose members are closely connected.
Metamour: Someone who is your partner's partner, but with whom you have no romantic relationship.
Polyamorous Mindset: A term I coined to refer to an approach one has that values and enacts polyamory's approach to relationships, whether or not one is in a polyamorous relationship.
Introspexual: A word I made up to talk about the attraction one feels towards people's introspective abilities.
Date: You may disagree with this definition, but hey, you don't make the rules: Going to see someone you're attracted to, usually one on one. Feelings need not to be mutual, nor need they know you're attracted to them.
Lover: Someone with whom the mutual attraction has been explicated and acted upon.
G) Types of Polyamorous Relationships
People first hearing about polyamory often visualize three people dating each other. While that model is not rare per se, it definitely does not constitute the bulk of types of existing polyamorous relationship. As the saying goes, there's as many types of polyamorous relationships as there are people in them. You get to co-create and define your ideal relationship from all parts with your partner(s) in a way that best accommodates and fulfills everyone involved. If you've figured out a relationship type that works for you and your partner(s), then you've pretty much made it!
Many factors come into play in determining the type of polyamorous relationship one gets into. Taken together, these factors amount to a number of possible combinations and give rise to a variety of types of polyamorous relationship, depending on each individual's:
Identity (gender and personality among others);
Attraction and relationalpreferences (sexual, sensual, affectionate, platonic, romantic, aesthetic, intellectual);
Life circumstances (internal and external);
Energy level (mental, physical, emotional, relational);
Commitment (support, presence, communication, time, projects, activities etc.);
Feelings, needs, desires, boundaries and expectations regarding themselves and their partner(s);
Understanding of the dynamic between them and their partner(s), and must often be redefined with time.
Despite the wide range of possible polyamorous relationships, those can generally be clustered in a few notable categories:
Hierarchical polyamory refers to polyamorous relationships which include primary and secondary partners, sometimes with a primary having veto power over other relationships. I've heard of some relationships of the kind where partners were allowed to have romance but not sex with other people, and others still where partners were allowed to have sex with other people but not to engage in other romantic relationships.
Non-hierarchical polyamory is what you'd expect of polyamorous relationships developing freely without primary and secondary partners.
The term polyfidelity is commonly used to talk about an intimate polyamorous structure where all members are considered equal and primary partners. These are called triads (or throuple) when involving three people, and quads when involving four.
I've heard some people referring to being solo poly to mean that their relationships wont escalate to a different status with time (moving in together, getting married, sharing finances, etc.), others to mean that they simultaneously have many one-on-one relationships and that their lovers don't necessarily know each other–but are very aware and approving of their metamours existence, and yet others to mean that they identify as polyamorous but currently single.
I've also witnessed the term relationship anarchist being ascribed various meanings: no relationship had precedence over another (platonic or otherwise), no romantic relationship has precedence over another, as well as a politically engaged relationship model which actively rejects all forms of hierarchy.
If you were ever told polyamory was effortless, I'm sorry but you were lied to. Now it will definitely be (significantly) easier for some people than for others, but it does require some amount of emotional work, at the very least to get acquainted with it. And then when you think you've gotten on top of things, life is always around the corner waiting to throw some unexpected situation at you. Fortunately, that gives you an opportunity to grow as a person!
There's a saying in polyamorous groups that if someone wants a lot of sex, engaging in polyamory is the worst possible solution they could of come up with: of all the many, many ways to have passionate and consensual sex with people, polyamory is the most demanding in terms of effort, time, and energy, and will take a lot of attending to the other people's emotional needs in order to develop and maintain healthy relationships. But hey, if you're all into lovey-dovey romance, polyamory may well be your jam.
Now for the challenges! Possibly one of the toughest challenge out there is around child-rearing in polyamorous relationships, doubly so when not in a community context. I don't have answers to this. I personally removed myself from this entire challenge by getting a vasectomy at age 21. Ten out of ten would recommend and do again. For those of you with penises, don't wait till it's too late and do get yourself fixed for a worry-free lifetime! For those of you with a uterus and a spare $8'000, there is always medical tourism, but with it currently also comes many health complications.
Part of this relates to polyamorous relationships being inherently more unstable than monogamous ones because a) there's an exponentially growing number of relations coming into play as the number of people involved increases, b) all those people have feelings as well, c) each is encouraged to engage with how they feel rather than steamrolling over their feelings, d) polycules where people are vulnerable, compassionate, and transparent with each other leads to a strong emotional contagiousness of emotions (positive and negative) through the web of relationships connecting them, and e) having things be out in the open for discussion encourages further questioning that would otherwise be taboo, thus leading to more uncertainty. This instability contributes to making the following scenarios challenging:
Opening up a monogamous relationship must be the scenario with the highest failure rate. In my understanding, the first main reason for this is that monogamous couples wanting to explore non-monogamy have already developed emotional and relational habits that fulfills their needs with minimal introspection and self-improvement requirement. When the structure of the relationship is subjected to change, the partners' habits—formerly source of security and comfort—are undermined and now become a source of stress and insecurities. The second reason, obvious in retrospective, is asking why people really want to open up their couple. Is one of the partners not satisfied with the relationship as it is and opening up the relationship seems like a smaller sacrifice than dropping it entirely—especially since it is now considered trendy in some circles to be polyamorous? Gosh I don't know! But do continue opening up your couples some more!
Related to the previous challenge but also applicable to relationships which started as polyamorous, is facing the unnerving fact of one partner being monogamous. They may always have known this, thought it could have changed with time, or may have discovered it just recently. It doesn't matter. Now the cat is out of the box and the issue has to be addressed by everyone involved.
And now, for a general one: Personal needs, desires, boundaries and—surprise, surprise—feelings actually change with time. Sometimes they don't change much. Sometimes, they change in the same direction as your partner's. And yet sometimes—for better or worse—they take a direction of their own. Better arm yourself with patience, compassion, and a whole truckload of communication for this one!
Complementing the previous challenge though not always easily distinguishable from it: noticing a change in your partner's capacity to fulfill your needs or desires (or to respect your boundaries). Maybe give them a heads-up before having this conversation with them, and do leave yourselves ways to evacuate your emotions before, during, and after the conversation.
Living together with partners is a no-brainer here. It's hard enough living with roommates, adding romance, intimacy and/or sex is ultimately increasing the complexity of the challenge. One reason for this is that one of the partners may bring other lovers home and this may be emotionally intense for people struggling with jealousy or feelings of abandonment. Another less thought-of reason is that the interactions between partners become less intentional and more the result of habit—which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it takes work to successfully navigate. Living with partners is definitely not unpleasant or undoable, but you'd better start enjoying long conversations right away!
Attending social events with partners may also be a source of challenge as everyone's attention is dispersed and not necessarily towards partners. You or your partner may meet other human beings and flirt with each other in front of your partner(s), and hopefully this is dealt with well. Also, metamours may meet each other which may be awkward because as a culture, we don't yet have social norms for how to interact with metamours. But we'll get there. Eventually.
Another challenge that may suddenly arise is having a polyamorous relationship being disturbed by a particularly bonding one. One of you meet this new person and is completely infatuated with them and spends a whole lot of time with them and, well, we've all got twenty four hours in a day and not everyone spends it casually reading books at home—though many of us may like to. So then, maybe the person spends less time with their other partner(s), talks about this marvelous new person all the time, or isn't emotionally present when they're with their other partners. Checking-in on how everyone's feeling and where everyone feels emotionally is probably a really good idea if this situation arises.
In triads or quads, everyone has a relationship with at least two other folkx. If one person's feelings change towards another within the polycules, that challenges the equilibrium previously reached, making the maintaining of these kinds of relationships more effortful (but no less fruitful!).
Very much related to the previous challenge, but applicable in all polyamorous relationship is having negative feelings towards a metamour. Whether it was like that from the start or developed slowly with time, the resentment towards this person may impede on how you relate with your partner, often accentuating personal insecurities and sometimes involving heated conversations with your partner—though hopefully not.
A final scenario many people find themselves in is having polyamory not being accepted in their social circles (friends, family, coworkers). By coming out to them as polyamorous, one may face rejection thus thrusting the person to weight whether they want to be honest with them or not, and in some cases even weight whether they want to engage in polyamory for this very reason. If this is your case, I'm sorry. There's no right way out, and each will bring its challenges. Be brave!
All these scenarios can be understood as adding extra opportunities for miscommunication and for insecurities to rise to the surface. They can come alone, or they may present themselves in bulk—often uninvited. We can easily imagine examples where these scenarios pile up until we actually get to pity the people involved. But they shouldn't deter you from exploring polyamory. Or rather, if they do, maybe that's for your own good, and that's fine! What I really mean is that if you feel confident about facing these challenges, or if the pull of polyamory is too strong for you to do otherwise, then let there be polyamory!
I) Perks (The Totally Awesome Stuff)
Okay now we're into the nice stuff. These are the things we're sold by polyamorous folkx trying to convince us it's all great and wonderful. What are these you ask? These are the relationships we'd all hope to have. I'm taking about those passionate, intentional, fulfilling, honest, authentic, mindful, consensual, caring, meaningful, transparent, easy-flowing, and trusting relationships. Those we dream about when we go to bed at night. Those we were dreaming of as kinds before life hit us hard. Well let me tell you: they exist. They are possible. And they're fucking great!
Someone I hold close to heart spoke of this best: "I had a friend a while back who asked me why I put myself through it. Why would I want to bring up my feelings of insecurity and mistrust over and over again? Why would I put myself and my fella through that? Well, I can say, now that I'm just about on the other side of it, it's because it held me back. My jealousy only served to push people away from me, when I most needed them to be close. My shame kept me from looking at myself. My life-long history with this problem kept me from living a much better and more full life."
It's also about getting to know someone for who they really are with all their beautiful qualities but also with all their fears and insecurities and all those things we all wish weren't part of us—and still love them. Our love is then based on who they are, not how they are.
J) Nurturing a Fertile Emotional Soil
It is good practice to engage more with how we are feeling by noticing and identifying what physical sensations we feel in our body, what feelings these sensations relate to, what event or state of mind brought about those feelings, how that relates to which needs of ours have or have not been met, and whether or not we want to perpetuate this causal chain or change it to something else—but I'm getting ahead of myself here. Introspecting regularly to notice what we currently desire and where our boundaries lay is also a healthy exercise. All this relates to noticing and identifying the emotional things that happen inside of us.
The second part is acknowledging that this is what we feel. To accept it. Why, you ask? Because "what is true is already so and owning up to it doesn't make it worse. Just as not being open about it doesn't make it go away. And because it's true, it is what is there to be interacted with" (Eugene Gendlin). Accepting it does not mean approving of it. It just means that we recognize what things are happening within us. Only when we understand such things may we choose to change ourselves—and succeed.
The third part is voicing it to the people close to us as honestly, transparently, and non-violently as possible. The quicker we can notice, identify and accept [whatever is happening inside of us], the quicker we are in a position to share it with our loved ones, thus defusing most conflicts or misunderstandings before they even arise.
K) Growing Meaningful Connections
I entertain a personal awe for the all the times love finds its way into someone's heart. I find it beautiful, the light it shines on people's face, the fueled flame that irradiates from their hearts, the lightness of mind it brings them. But what I find even more breath taking is a shared love, one acted on. In so, polyamory does miracles, permitting love to be lived wherever and however it presents itself, in a healthy and fulfilling way, by creating the ground for intentional and conscious relationships to develop themselves, where each moment spent together is not the result of habit or duty, but rather sprout from a desire to exist with another. Whereas one may be said to fall in love, polyamory permits you to stand in love, to find independence in love.
In so, I find beautiful everything in the domain of love that happens between two or more people for whatever it is (passion, intimacy, friendship, companionship, shared gazes, etc.) and for the time it lasts (hours, days, months, years, a lifetime) as long as it's consenting (obviously), and that the commitment is reciprocal.
I find that the word "commitment" is an umbrella term referring to many things. Thus, when I talk about commitment, I distinguish between six types of commitment:
Commitment in presence: Committing to being present, really present in the moment with someone when you see each other.
Commitment in support: Committing to supporting the person whenever she feels the need. Stating outright that you can be relied on.
Commitment in communication: This one may take a little more energy, but in my experience is totally worth it: Committing to always consciously take the time to communicate and do so non-violently as if the relationship would last forever.
Commitment in time: Committing to maintaining the relationship for a certain amount of time.
Commitment in actions/activities: Committing to do actions to or activities with a person. Includes keeping contact by text/call/in person with someone a certain amount of times a day/week/month, keeping each other up to date to daily events, or regularly doing activities together.
Polyamory is about having the freedom to co-create and live those relationships. Whereas the sky is (currently) the hard limit, your imagination and dedication is the softer limit which can always be transcended.
L) Maintaining Flourishing Relationships
A most important part in keeping alive the relationships we love is about how we are receiving others. It never hurts to be in a benevolent state of mind of welcoming the other. To be present with them and attentive to how they are feeling, what are trying to say despite their words. To be there with our hearts, not our minds. To welcome people's vulnerability and to acknowledge the courage it takes to open up.
Check-ins may be of the most important things you could be doing to your partner a) when you think it might be important to, b) when you don't know how they are feeling, and c) more often than you're probably doing it. They permit everyone involved to feel cared for, and to express how it is they are feeling, and whether their loved ones can do anything about it.
And to finish, I’ll quote the most common answer to how to maintain flourishing relationships I’ve ever heard: Communication, communication, communication, communication, communication, communication, communication, communication!
Be you all loving and be all your relationships well~ - Yohan
2019.08.15 19:04 bacalternOpening-up with a non-nesting partner
Something that I've been wanting to ask in a while, but only now it feels like is becoming more of an issue...Has anyone here been in some sort of a closed relationship (edited "monogamous/polyfidel") with a non-nesting partner (I don't like to use the term secondary because this relationship feels non-hierarchic) and it felt pretty special during NRE and so on, even fluid bonded, but then, one of you decided to date other people again? How did it affect this relationship? I feel like non-nesting relationships are way more fragile to survive a drastic change of dynamics like that. I hope I am wrong...
2019.06.24 14:17 hansfreesolostruggling with what I guess is couple privilege...
I am having trouble and looking for help/suggestions/anything really. I am in a triad with two partners who were together almost 8 years before I came along. Generally, things are great. We live together, we communicate well, we have regular check-ins, etc. We are polyfidelity at the moment (closed to each other, developing the relationship) but open for that to change in the future. However, I am having trouble with the fact that the two of them seem to ask each other out for dinners and drinks way more than either one of them asks me. I brought this up at the last few meetings (over the last 4 months or so), but nothing seemed to have changed. After the two of them going to dinner again last week (for the third time in a row, without me having a chance), I confronted them both individually. I did use the google calendar to check that I wasn't making this up either....they have in fact gone for more drinks and dinners with each other....I have gone out for dinner only 2x with M and 3x with F. In a year in a half. The three of us have gone out a handful of times....but not only that....the majority of the dates we've gone on I have planned. I have made reservations and paid and asked them out (together and individually). So that realization made me kind of sad. They both agreed to work on it....but I am feeling so crappy and left out by the realization that it's just been so little. And the dynamics of three in general...well...requires a lot more planning and less spontaneity. In addition to this, I feel like I want to explore a bit more sexually (which they were already doing 1.5 years into their relationship), and go on dates for the sake of fun and going on dates (something I am currently and have been missing). but from both of them I get answers like "we need to be more solid first," "this requires a lot of trust and communication," "I don't think we are ready for this," etc. I guess these kinds of things just make me feel like a child in the relationship? Like *they* make the terms together? < Lastly, on top of this, I met them while living abroad....and decided to stay. Not based on them - also on an opportunity - so resettling has been an adjustment and I have yet to find a social circle/friends to really belong to/hang out with. Aiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. Any similar situations or ideas about how to go forward or what to do? Thanks all.
2019.06.21 20:15 ThatSeemsPlausibleDivorce rather than platonic marriage while being poly
TLDR: Wife wants to transition to platonic marriage while being poly. I don't think I can do that and am choosing divorce. I'm looking for some support around a really difficult choice here. Thanks in advance. This could be posted in any of several subreddits, but I'm really looking for a poly perspective rather than a knee-jerk response from marriage/divorce/relationship advice subreddits. And I'm using this to process, so sorry for the length. My (43M) wife (43F) and I will have been married 15 years next month and have 3 kids (13, 11, 8). We opened up our marriage over a period beginning in 2015, and have each had great relationships with other people where we've worked to be non-hierarchical emotionally, although subject to the practical constraints of having built a life together (house, kids, etc.). A while back, she told me she wasn't attracted to me anymore (ILYBINILWY). We've both done individual and couples therapy since then, and some of the issues underlying those feelings include the unresolved buildup of resentment and criticism in our long term relationship, and way too much emotional enmeshment between us, where we each felt responsible for the others emotional wellbeing and pushed ourselves down rather than risk upsetting the other. We've worked to try to address and grow through those issues, and to develop our own sense of self and figure out what we each want. I can only speak for myself, but I am a much happier and more whole person than I was before, and I think we've rebuilt a loving and intimate relationship, although one that is non-romantic/non-sexual. I've been really happy in our relationship and in spending time with her over the last few months as things have been rebuilt. (We continued seeing other partners/people until early this year, when those other relationships kind of naturally ended, and we agreed to stop dating at that point so as to focus on our relationship.) She is very certain that what she needs right now is space to work on her own healing and sense of self. She wants to separate, but to stay in the same house in order to maintain consistency for the kids. She wants the freedom to date and to be her own self, where she is not beholden to checking in with me or telling me what she is doing with her life (subject to scheduling around childcare and similar responsibilities). She wants to have no expectation or hope of any future romantic or sexual relationship between us, so that there is no pressure on her to feel any particular way towards me and she won't feel responsible for my emotional well-being. I would also be free to date, and to move on if that feels right to me. She thinks that she may want to be solo-poly, where she can hold onto and protect her own sense of self, and to selectively choose to share parts of herself with other partners, but not to be committed to any other partner in a way that would risk losing herself in the relationship. That dynamic is a lot of what non-monogamy means to her. For me, the draw of polyamory has been more connection and intimacy with others, with more of a goal of polyfidelity. But in my personal work, I've realized that some of that goal plays into my own unhealthy issues. My historical emotional baggage has generally led me to over-commitment in relationships, with an embedded covert contract. I commit and provide for partners, and in exchange my partner is supposed to love me/have sex with me, which would make me feel worthy/whole/valued. I need to be needed, because if I'm not needed (i.e., if they don't need me to provide for them and take care of them), then why would they love me? Now some of you may read all that and say "he is totally messed up," but it is a reasonably common set of issues for a lot of people, especially in longer-term relationships, where we set up our relationships in order to try to force our partners to provide external validation for ourselves. A lot of my personal work has been examining and dismantling those messages, and figuring out how to self-validate. Looking forward for me, I've got some challenges around figuring out how to be in relationship. How do I connect with someone without falling into those same patterns? What will romance and sex mean to me when it isn't about external validation? In many ways, my challenges are the inverse of where my wife is at--similar issues, just from a different perspective. She is driven to hold onto herself tightly, and is working on figuring out how to safely reach out and connect with others. I'm driven to connect with others, but I need to figure out how to safely hold onto myself in doing so. This has a lot of similarities to anxious/avoidant attachment styles. I respect my wife's position and her desire to have space and no pressure or expectation to reconnect with me. Although I respect it, it is not what I want--I would like to stay together, and to work on these issues by supporting each other in finding the balance that is right for each of us, and see if we can build a romantic and sexual relationship between us, while also being free to develop relationships with others, including relationships that meet different needs. I know that some people are perfectly happy in a platonic anchor relationship while having other relationships--it works for both of them, and gives stability for kids and home life. That is not what I want with her. Although I am happy in the relationship we have been rebuilding, part of that happiness is based around the joy of watching it improve and grow, and the hope of romantic reconnection in the future. If she wanted space for a period of time, or perhaps even space for an indefinite period of time but without dating, perhaps it might feel different to me. But I would not be happy with that kind of permanent relationship with her. Separating, whether in-home or one of us (me) leaving the home feels like it is just moving into limbo. I feel like the only reason I would want to separate is if there is a hope that we could reconnect after she has time and space to heal. Instead, divorce is the option I'm choosing, because if there is no expectation, hope, or willingness to work towards reconnecting, then it is time for me to move on for my own emotional health. I'll have to continue doing my own work in order to figure out how to be in relationship in a healthy way, and will have to be cognizant of the ethical ramifications of dating while trying to do that work. Anyone want to convince me I'm making the wrong choice? Or that I should give separation a chance to see if anything changes? I don't want to divorce, but I'm also committed to standing up for my inner self and what I want. I want her to change her mind, but I'm committed to respecting her for standing up for her inner self and what she wants. And then there are the issues of the kids and their emotional health, and of the huge mess that separating finances will be.
2019.06.19 04:25 ShesABitWeirdHow Do You Handle Partner Selection?
I'm curious to see how everyone polys and chooses partners differently. Partner selection is such a tricky thing because the butterflies and chemistry often come with people who do not poly the same way you do. It's a smoke that gets in our eyes and blinds you to some of those red or yellow flags we should be paying attention to. It's nice once and awhile to clear that smoke and try and approach partner selection with a clearer head. What are some of YOUR deal-breakers, must-haves, nice-to-haves, and boundaries when selecting a partner? They don't have to be hard rules... they can just be guidelines. Here are some of mine: Must-haves: -Sexual Chemistry -Emotional Availability and Enthusiasm -An actual connection (it's gotta be a 'Fuck Yeah') -Clear, direct communication of what they want, boundaries, expectations, etc. -Kind, affectionate and warm -Commitment to ethical non-monogamy -Can handle or will consider polyfidelity to deepen long-term romantic commitments. Deal-Breakers: -If coupled, they've been practicing poly for less than two years. (It sucks being someone's training ground.) -Unchecked or undealt with couples' privilege. -Can't support themselves or is financially dependent on others. (I'm middle-aged. Don't got time for that.) -Believes in autonomy without accountability. (Doesn't take responsibility for themselves or their actions... this goes with the above deal breaker: can't support themselves.) -Already in a toxic relationship / one of my potential metas is toxic. -Talks shit about current partners, recent exes. -Addiction, untreated mental illness. -No connection after three to six dates. Nice-to-Haves: -Uncoupled / No primary (not having to worry about hierarchy or couples' privilege is awesome.) -Awesome metas. His already existing partners are women who can support themselves, doing something cool with their lives. What are yours?
2019.06.18 11:14 throwawayyyythingAdvice about messy poly, the feeling of being cheated on and the fear of being a hypocrite
I need some advice from y'all. But there's a lot of background needed because it's a pretty messy situation, so I'm gonna try to make it as short and as coherent as possible. It'll still be a novel though, so let's see if anybody will even read it. I'll also try to not be too one-sided, but hey, no guarantees. 13 months ago, I (F22) came to the realization that I might be poly. My longterm boyfriend (22) and me have been together since we were 16, so at that point for about 4 1/2 years. He - let's call him F - had been on a semester abroad and I found hobbies to distract myself, mostly stuff online, and started talking to people. My boyfriend came back and things were great, I was happy to have him home. He wasn't home a lot though - between work, school, friends and his various political involvements, I spent a lot of time alone at home (still do). I started talking to one of these friends online and after a while noticed there might be more emotions involved than there should have been. I broke off contact. I was upset. I did some research, stumbled upon polyamory and found signs in my life that I might be poly. I told F about it and he told me that he couldn't bear to see me so unhappy and that he wanted to find a way to make this all work. I started talking to the other guy (21) - let's call him A - again and was honest about my life situation and my relationship. He too wanted to try it, as he was unexperienced (hadn't had a previous partner) and could imagine polyamory with me. A lives 4000 miles away from me, so it was clear that it would be LDR for at least a very significant part of it. It was a bumpy ride. F had a lot of problems coming to terms with it, but we talked about it a lot. He set rules, very clear and strict rules, for the first visit I had with A after half a year ( he came to visit for a bit more than a week) - nothing sexual was to happen. Before that he also had to give me "permission" to do anything cybersex related. I know it wasn't healthy and I knew it then, but it was the only way I saw to move forward. A had a lot of problems with the feeling of unfairness and some else dictating the terms of his relationship. And I got that, but I didn't see a way to change it. I know that was selfish, and I told A I totally understood if he didn't want to move forward if things were like that. He didn't want to end things even on those terms. I see now that it was incredibly unfair to A and I am working through my shit on the fact that our couples privilege hurt him immensely. So the first visit went great even if it was tough sticking to the lines. The second visit happened almost 11 months after I started dating A, this April, when I went to visit him for two weeks. Before that, F had given in to the sex rule. The two weeks I was there were incredible, I was sooo in love and also was sexually satisfied like I've never been before (A and me have a very fulfilling D/s dynamic that I've always ached for but that F couldn't give me). I came back home and adjusting was tough. Me and F struggled, but worked through it. The last month since we reached a good point again has been rough because he's barely been home, but emotionally we were good even if I felt a bit needy. He has since admitted that he can't let a month like that happen again regarding time management. That's for background. So let's skip forward to last weekend. F was out on a festival and I was at home, excited for him to come back so we could finally spend some real time together. He came back Monday night and on Tuesday night we were finally cuddled up in bed and I was excited to have him back when he tells me he met someone on the weekend he's interested in, wants to pursue a relationship with and might fall in love with very soon. I asked what happened between them and he tells me cuddles and handholding. I ask if they kissed. He's silent, which was answer enough. He confirms that they kissed a few times. I throw up and can't believe it, because I had been under the impression that we would talk about it before anything physical ever happened on his site, like we did with me. Apparently there had been a miscommunication or understanding and he thought that the beginning rules were a bit more lax to make it easier for him. (Stemming from a conversation we had how to make it easier for him where I asked him if he wanted me to be okay with polyfidelity (I didn't name it, only described it) on his side, but apparently he misunderstood that question.) Anyways, it's been less than 7 days since that revelation. We've spent a lot of the evenings fighting, crying, talking about it. He met with her two times since then. I asked him not to kiss her again because that had been such a breach of trust (and probably the worst thing that ever happened to me - yes i've lived a spoiled life) and he did not want to take that step back again because he was afraid it would make her back out of trying this with him. When I finally gave him after hours of crying, he offered to maybe do take the step back but I didn't accept. It didn't feel sincere that it had only come after I had finally given in and he had made it clear what he wanted. I know that's messy on my part but it happened. It's been a rollercoaster. We've also had better sex than in the entire past year twice in the last week, but also like I said also countless tears. I'm messed up, I'm in pain and I don't know how to move forward. It seems impossible to move forward with this, but I also feel like I don't have a choice because he also had to do it with me last year. Comparing the two situations is something I want to do and have done, but I know it's unproductive and doesn't do any good. So I guess now I'm just on the verge of wondering if I'm actually poly - because his actions are hurting me so much and I'm in agony when I think about them together and I'm incredibly scared. That shouldn't be the case when I'm poly, right? Am I a huge hypocrite for feeling so hurt by everything when I also put him through the pain of having to deal with coming to terms with the polyness on my side? We've been communicating so much and I've been telling him all of this and I think he also understands it, but I don't know, all the communication in the world doesn't feel like it will fix the pain I'm feeling. Sorry for the novel. tl;dr: Boyfriend and me have been poly for a year, but only I had another LDR since then. Now he met someone he wants to pursue (non LDR), but they kissed before I knew about it which makes me feel cheated on. I am doubting if I am actually poly as I'm working through my shit. Does being in pain about his actions and them being together make me a hypocrite and if yes, how do I deal with things?
2019.05.20 22:55 firecorn22Johnvrisrezi is the best OT3 and shouldve been more popular
Ok I honestly don't get how this wasn't a big ship or at the very least not get talked about time to time. I mean all the compound ships are popular and they don't even conflict with each other. Johnrezi is the best black rom and is very popular Vrisrezi is Canon and I know you cried durng terezi: remember; so I know you shop it as moirails Johnvris was popular and alternate versions of them dated and it wasn't too bad definitely could end up better with there current version (not epilogue). They fit every quadrant flushed, pale, caliginous and even auspistice since vriska turned out to be a great auspistice at least for gamrezi and rosemary so she should be able to auspistice johnrezi if needed. Like this is the perfect polyfidelity ship it's not like others where it's one person with multiple relationships each person here has at least 2 relationships. TLDR john <3< terezi, John <3 vriska, Vriska <> terezi, Vriska 08< john&terezi
2019.05.15 19:23 blinky84How do you trust that it's for you?
Hi guys, I've just kind of wandered in here from another sub. I'm early on my journey, and I'm looking for... I dunno, a sounding board, I guess. I describe myself as queer, but not polyamorous. I'm 34F, thought I was Ace until I was 25 when I fell in love with a man, the only real relationship I've ever been in. It became unhealthy due to psychology on both sides, but during the relationship I came to terms with the fact that I'm more attracted to other women. We talked about this, he was happy for me to date women while still with him but I didn't want to. Fidelity is very important to me, but I've always felt that polyfidelity is possible in relationships with excellent communication. Suffice to say, my partner and I did not have excellent communication, and our relationship has been on and off and has finally ended after nine years. Since the relationship ended, I've started using women-only dating apps. I've been talking to a lady (A) who I think is absolutely wonderful, who happens to be in a polyamorous long-term relationship with another woman (B). She's about 100 miles away so we haven't met yet due to circumstance (although we've planned a date, it's on hold as a family member has passed away). I'm really in two minds about the entire situation. I do think I owe it to myself to try it out and see how it feels. Her girlfriend also sounds amazing, although we haven't communicated yet. I'm totally fine with being with A while she's also with B (as long as I can trust that this is in B's full knowledge). If B was amenable and we clicked, I would also be open to forming a triad. I don't feel any inclination to date more than one person myself, though. Here's the thing that's pricking at my brain... and please, please, don't be offended by this as it's just a desperately sad situation, but there was a case locally several years ago where a woman in a polyamorous relationship was her husband's girlfriend's birthing partner, cut the baby's umbilical cord, then had a mental break and drowned her own daughter outside the hospital. This terrifies me, because this woman seems to have kept saying 'yes, yes, I'm okay' when she was Really Not Okay and it had the worst possible consequence. I have a background where I was brought up in that kind of situation, where you're forced to deny your own thoughts and feelings (religion-related), and this case really affected me at the time because I was absolutely devastated for her. Naturally, it's coloured my perception of poly relationships. This is in no way judgmental, but solely in relation to my own ability to negotiate this situation. I know none of you can tell me whether or not A (and potentially B) is worth it, but it feels like a big scary risk to me. A lot of the problem I'm having right now is how to trust myself to know that I'm not going to let myself get into a bad situation. I've moved on a lot from that period of myself, but it's a big fear. I'm not out to my family, who are openly homophobic (again, religion-related), so I feel like this could develop into too much to handle pretty quickly. But I also really want to spend time with A and get to know her better because frankly I think she's fabulous. Could anyone provide me with any tips on how to explore and communicate my own thoughts regarding this? I don't want to dump on A with a whole 'oh, I like you but I'm not sure about B' thing. I did tell her I was new to the idea of polyam, early when we started talking, and I would have to see if I was comfortable. Should that be enough for now?
2019.03.17 08:41 KemHekaHad a first date. Think I’m overthinking it.
A little back ground on me, a married 32 year old male. My wife and I have been together nine years and married for four. Three years ago my wife fell In love with her best friend, and we had what I would suspect are the fairly typical conversations when something like this falls in your laps. My wife was of course ok with me seeing other people since she was, but until now I’ve been so busy building my business, and not loving myself enough to really put effort into this area of my life. I’ve floated around on dating apps off and on for a while, but nothing serious. Well, I had recently redownloaded tinder and wasn’t expecting anything to really happen. On that platform, I either put that I’m poly in the profile or I will mention it early in the conversation. On this particular outing I was playing with using one liners in the profile, and was saving superlikes for poly people only. Then on Friday I saw this profile where she just radiated with such beautiful sincerity. I didn’t think anything would come of it really, but I just really wanted a conversation with her so I superliked despite her not saying she was poly. On this particular day I had taken a rather taxing call at work that I just couldn’t shake and was definitely not on my A game and I forgot to mention I was poly. We texted late into the evening, and when I woke up she had messaged me pretty much when she woke up. We talked some more when it struck me I needed to tell her. So I sent a message apologizing and explaining more about that call and how it affected me but definitely outing myself. Of course I apologized for it. Turns out she didn’t really know what it was, and I explained both what poly is in general and my take on it, which is on the polyfidelity side of things and how I was looking to start as friends and see how things would go. That seemed to reassure her. Rather then ghosting me as I was expecting, she shared something personal that we deeply related on. We actually switched to texting and continued talking all day. I asked her out and she deferred due to babysitting. She offered Sunday as an alternative which I agreed to. I didn’t hear from her for a bit, which I figured was due to said babysitting. Well out of the blue she texted me asking if I still wanted to hang out as the parents were going to return earlier than expected. We then made plans to meet at a coffee shop first and then either a hookah place or a nightlife hotspot. She told me she was really excited, she moved to town recently and broke up with her boyfriend she moved with a month ago,and I don’t think she had been out much. We were then both finishing up some stuff and getting ready, and the next time we talked it was because we were heading out. We actually got to the coffee shop at the same time and quickly ordered and sat down. I doubt it matters but if your still reading at this point might as well keep the detail up lol. She paid for herself, and I deeply appreciated that as I was eating into my food budget to pay for this evening, which I did not tell her. We ended up talking for the better part of two hours. It really felt like we had connected surprisingly deep, and talking with her was easier then I ever expected. We covered some rather deep territory during our conversation, but I would always made sure to bring some light hearted moments in at the right times. Unfortunately, a work related issue came up so we had to finish up. It wasn’t something that was expected to take long, so she invited me to her place to watch a movie after if I was willing to wait. We had met at my old stomping grounds so I knew where to go to blow some time and agreed. As she was leaving she she came in for a hug, but I could tell she was in a hurry so I didn’t read an opportunity for a kiss, but I could be stupid. A note of worth, there was a few calls from her job (she’s a high up manager) so it would have to be an elaborate fake. At one point when I was returning from getting a refill I heard her pleading with her caller to contact a different manager, and put her phone on do not disturb mode. At this point I felt like I knocked the ball out of the park. However I ended up waiting for over two hours (I was enjoying myself) and have not heard from her yet. I called her twice, and texted her twice, an hour after we parted and an hour after that. Both texts were expressing concern and wondering if she was ok. We both use IPhones, so I am able to see if she’s read my messages. As of right now, 2:20 Sunday morning, the messages are sitting as delivered rather then read and there has been no calls. I’m trying to keep my thoughts towards giving the benefit of doubt, but the negative voices in my head are hard to ignore sometimes. So I just wanted to get an outside perspective. I’m sorry about the book I’ve written here, but if you have read this far, then I truly do thank you, and would very much appreciate your honesty and any insight you might have. TL;DR: I kinda wrote this for a reason...hard to condense and rather tired.
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